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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1801759,00.html
World News
September 28, 2005
"There are people who oppose me, leaders of the ruling party who call me a dictator, 'Hitler' "(Jeremy Sutton-Hibbert/The Times)
The Times
Times interview with Japanese Prime Minister: transcript
Junichiro Koizumi, the Japanese Prime Minister, talked with Robert Thomson, Editor of The Times, at Mr Koizumi’s official residence in Tokyo on Tuesday, September 27 2005
Question: You have just won an extraordinary victory. Surely with a victory of that size you’ll serve more than just one more summer?
Koizumi: Of course, no one really anticipated a victory of this size. However I’ve been saying all along that I shall retire in one year. So I shall do my level best, serve out my term, and in September next year I shall retire.
Q: Don’t you now feel that you have a mandate for change, and that in one more year it will be difficult to do all that needs to be done?
A: I think – and what I say would apply to any prime minister – that there is no end to the work a prime minister must accomplish. But I believe that within the remainder of my term I can fulfil what I need to do.
I have been saying all along that my top priority, the foremost goal of my cabinet has been the privatisation of Japan Post. I have called it the bastion of reform. If it can be realised it will be a political miracle. Now it looks likely that the miracle will happen.
I believe that when I took office and declared the postal services needed to be privatised, and will be privatised, many people must have doubted it. That doubt is not difficult to understand – because it was not just the opposition parties who were opposed to privatisation, but actually members of the ruling parties were opposed to it. In a democratic country it’s no wonder that people doubted its feasibility.
From my 30 years of experience in politics [I recognise] that as a political phenomenon there is a moment when everyone who’s opposed legislation will suddenly switch over to supporting that legislation. And that moment has indeed arrived. Because in fact this legislative proposal [for postal privatisation] died in the Japanese Diet on August 8 and no one expected that it would be resuscitated.
Q: Are you conscious of your place in history?
A: Speaking of the dissolution of the Lower House I believe in the past there has not been any occasion when because a legislative proposal was voted down in the House of Councillors [Upper House], the House of Representatives [Lower House] has been dissolved. In that respect you might call this a very historic dissolution.
Then also I believe it’s unusual for those who opposed the proposal to switch over to supporting that same proposal. In this respect you might say this is a phenomenon that will be recorded in history and the name Koizumi may be imprinted alongside as the prime minister of the time.
Q: Isn’t the postal reform issue as much symbolic as it is administrative?
A: I think it is rather a complicated picture. Partly [I won because of] appreciation of my track record over the past four years and public support for the reforms I’ve advanced to date and support for the postal privatisation. I think these are all intertwined.
The methods I’ve employed to achieve the economic recovery of Japan out of recession have caused friction with the ruling party. For example, the means I employed to dispose of the non-performing loans in the banking sector, the fact that I reduced public works spending in time of recession, which is a total departure from what has been done in the past.
It has been customary for anyone who becomes president of the Liberal Democratic Party and prime minister of Japan to assume his position with the strong backing of the ruling party. In my case, I’ve become Prime Minister amidst frictions with the mainstream ruling party factions. In that respect it seems I’m a very unusual Prime Minister.
There were in fact some in the West, in Europe and the US, who asked, "Is this democracy?" After all, one who becomes prime minister and president of the party should assume that position with the strong support of their party members. They said that there must be something wrong about being prime minister whilst fighting not just the opposition but also the ruling party.
There are people who oppose me, leaders of the ruling party who call me a dictator, "Hitler". That may seem very strange because I was elected – I assumed my position after an election.
During the election campaign I told people that these members of the Upper House opposed to the [postal] bill believe that the Japanese public is also opposed to the bill and that is why they are opposing it. [I said:] ‘If you let me win then I’m sure the members of house of councillors will now understand that the Japanese public also supports this proposal and they will therefore switch their position. So let me win this election.’ And at the end of the day, looking at the results of the snap election, the detractors in the upper house switched their position with surprising speed.
This election was about asking the Japanese public to turn around the Diet’s conclusions and it turned out to be just that. So in that respect I think it was a very historic election.
Q: If next June every opinion poll showed that 80 per cent would like you to stay on, will you ignore those voices?
A: [Laughs.] There’s no way then opinion polls will yield such a result, like 70 or 80 per cent asking me to continue.
Q: If there was a clear majority that must make you think again?
A: I don’t think there’s any reason to concern myself about that because around that time, since the party presidential election takes place in September, new candidates for that post will have already launched their election campaigns in June.
Q: Could you imagine a woman being the next prime minister?
A: I really don’t see anyone who could really qualify as a possible prime ministerial candidate in the near future.
Q: How many potential successors do you think you have identified?
A: There are about four or five.
Q: Japan has apologised for the Second World War but to some people overseas it still looks as if Japan has not apologised. Would you consider holding some kind of ceremony in Japan that would formally make clear to the world Japan’s position on the Second World War?
A: I have no such ceremony in mind, in fact I believe people will understand if they look at Japan’s trajectory over the past 60 years since the end of the war that Japan has reflected on its past and that it is repentant.
I believe that you are referring to relations with China and the Republic of Korea. But the fact is that in all areas much more than ever before we are seeing exchanges progressing between Japan and these two countries.
I would assume that it’s for political reasons that China is opposing my visits to the Yasukuni Shrine.
Q: Internal political reasons or external ones?
A: Internal reasons. In addition I would assume that China doesn’t welcome a growth in Japan’s political influence. They are opposed, for example, to Japan becoming a permanent member of the UN Security Council because they want to check Japan’s influence on the international stage.
Q: Why are you not clearer about your intention to go to Yasukuni Shrine?
A: Actually the Chinese already do know my thoughts. Indeed I believe Chinese leaders are aware of my intent, but then of course you have to be considerate of the others’ position as well. So I think it’s not something that we should make public. We always have to bear in mind relations with other countries.
Q: Should we expect a visit to Yasukuni before the year is out?
A: I think that sort of thing is best left unsaid. That [is something that] the Chinese also understand.
Q: People seem sometimes to confuse nationalism in Japan with the development of a post war national identity. Does that concern you?
A: That misunderstanding is certainly incorrect because what you see is not nationalism at all. Japanese people have very deeply reflected over the past. They have remorse about the Second World War, and more than any other people around the world they have the strong conviction that they must never again wage war, and they love peace more than anything else.
Q: Has the economy officially recovered?
A: The duration of the recovery so far is longer than any recovery in the past but we are yet to overcome inflation and until we have officially overcome inflation we cannot declare an official recovery
Q: Last time we met you said you were sleeping four or five hours a night. Are you sleeping longer and more peacefully after the election?
A: [Laughs.] There may not be a different length of sleep but probably I enjoy deeper sleep than during the election or I wake up less frequently.
Q: When you retire what are you going to do – garden, listen to music?
A: I haven’t even got to that point of thinking about it. All I can say now is that it behoves me to do my level best as prime minister until September. I’m sure that once I quit I’ll find many things to do.
As prime minister I do enjoy music, but it’s CDs in bed . When I quit I’ll go to concerts and movie theatres, instead of films on DVD. Also, as long as you’re prime minister everything I do is official. When you are not prime minister, there are many ways to enjoy yourself.
Q: What are you reading now?
A: I am reading a book about Japanese history in the time of the warlords, about 400 years ago.
Q: Are there lessons to be learnt for the present day?
A: I am learning greatly about the harshness, the harsh life of a samurai warlord. Every day they faced death. There are a lot of lessons to be learned.
Q: Which warlords?
A: I’m talking about Oda Nobunaga, Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Ieyasu. These three warlords had complicated entanglements in the history of that time.
Q: Some people say the British Labour Party is like [Japan’s] Liberal Democratic Party because the real opposition comes from within the Labour Party itself. Have you noticed that?
A: I think in Japan the ruling party is the ruling party and the opposition is the opposition.
The difficulty my cabinet has had is forcing members of the ruling party who deep in their heart oppose my policies to accept and support my policies. I’ve had to spend lots of energy turning around these people, members of the ruling party who are opposed to me deep down in their heart - because Koizumi is party president and prime minister, and because the Japanese public is supporting [postal privatisation]. That’s been the difficult part.
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